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CELTIC-L  February 2008

CELTIC-L February 2008

Subject:

Re: Vercingetorix

From:

John Hooker <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

CELTIC-L - The Celtic Culture List.

Date:

Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:56:46 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

Hi Gil,

There were two -- The one who conquered Rome and the later one who raided
Delphi. They might still have been "taken names", For example, there were
two different rulers with the name "Dubnovellaunos" in Britain
(Trinovantes and Cantii) and these are from coin legends. Of course, there
is also Cassivellaunos. While "Brennus" and "Cassivellaunos" look like
titles, it is quite possible that they were adopted names -- rather like
Chinese emperor's reign names.

Incidently, as I hinted in the previous email, the story of Marcus Furius
Camillus was pure fiction on the part of Livy (See also, Daniele Vitali,
"The Celts in Italy" in _The Celts_, Kruta et al, 1997 ed. p.232). Neither
of the other two accounts record any Roman victory, saying the Celts won
and made off with the money. Livy was not exactly respected by his peers.
He was more of a popular historian -- with something of the "Geoffrey of
Monmouth" style.

Cheers,

John

> Kenneth,
>
> I may be wrong because I have not followed any serious enquiry, but my
> understanding is that 'Brenna' simply means 'War Leader', or one who
> leads raids. I say that because raid after raid over very long periods
> indeed were all led by 'Brenna', or as you write 'Brennus'.
>
> It would be interesting to know which Brenna this one might happen to be.
>
> Kenneth Smith wrote:
>> Sort of.  One of the chieftains observing the weighing of the gold to
>> be given as tribute allegedly said "Vae Victis" - Woe to the
>> vanquished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vae_victis
>>
>> However, the statue of Vercingetorix would be for a specific reason
>> not adequately represented by Brennus. Vercingetorix was a freedom
>> fighter, and exercised leadership to unite those tribes that agreed
>> with him concerning the Roman threat posed by Gaius Julius Caesar.
>>
>> Brennus led an army against Rome to exact vengeance for a murder after
>> the Celts had appealed to the Romans to justice for the men killed at
>> a meeting between the Celtic peoples entering Cisalpine Gaul and the
>> Etruscans in the area, and a cadre of Romans attended and during the
>> discussions one of the Celtic leaders was killed.  Apparently Brennus
>> was later defeated and ejected from the city by Marcus Furius Camillus
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Furius_Camillus>.  So Brennus
>> should have done to Rome what Rome did to Carthage.
>>
>> Vercingetorix is my preference specifically because he apparently
>> viewed the Roman way as the destruction of his people, and to preserve
>> their freedom Rome had to be opposed. Further, he united the Gauls in
>> a way that would only occur later with Brian of Boruma, High King of
>> Ireland who likewise united the Irish against a common enemy, the
>> Vikings. And after Vercingetorix's defeat at Alesia he was taken to
>> Rome and occasionally tortured in prison, then later brought out after
>> 3or 4 years and either beheaded or strangled.
>>
>> So, he should symbolize Celtic defiance against Rome because:
>>
>> 1) of his leadership in rallying and uniting the disunited tribes;
>> 2) his nobility to sacrifice himself in defeat in order to spare his
>> countrymen;
>> 3) after the defeat at Alesia, Roman administration of Gaul began the
>> gradual extinction of Celtic identity in Gaul to be replaced by Roman
>> Gaul, then France, and the "romanized" identity those changes effected;
>> 4) the statue of Vercingetorix would be a sign to Rome, the west, and
>> the world, that his ancient spirit to preserve his freedom, culture
>> and identity did not die with him.
>>
>> The festival, the celebration of our existence, could take many forms.
>> I envision it as a Celtic "Renaissance Fair." In the States we have
>> these Renaissance fairs in which many of the customs, crafts, and way
>> of life of the entire Middle Ages are exhibited in some way.  Ususally
>> the focus is on England only.  There are places in Europe where this
>> is done to some extent already with Hallstaat and La Tene era Celtic
>> villages, with wild boar roasting, et al. The brewing and tasting of
>> mead ought to be a favorite exhibit. Another should be the brewing of
>> beer since there is a debate now whether the Germans learned beer
>> brewing from the Celts of Bavaria.
>>
>> But the purpose of the event would be to blow the carnyx at Rome from
>> the banks of the Tiber, as well as showcase existing Celtic identity,
>> and its continuity with pre-Roman Gaul and other realms (perhaps
>> Czechoslovakia, Romania, et al). A carnyx of the type displayed on the
>> Gunderstrop cauldron was found in Scotland in 1816, nearly intact, and
>> dating from between A.D. 100 to 300.
>> http://www.carnyxscotland.co.uk/carnyx/carnyx.php  We would have to
>> find a way to have this one economically duplicated. Perhaps plans
>> could be produced by some industrious person so we could make our own
>> and bring them for that purpose.
>>
>> On this page
>> http://www.carnyxscotland.co.uk/recordings/voice.php click the near
>> the page bottom for a sample recording of the Carnyx
>> http://www.carnyxscotland.co.uk/audio/voice.htm.
>>
>> Cionaodh
>
>
> You can unsubscribe yourself by logging in on the list archives page at
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CELTIC-L&X=36DAE1476AF514EF73,
> selecting the 'join or leave Celtic-L' link and going through the
> unsubscription routine there.
>


John's home page:
http://www.writer2001.com
Celtic Improvisations (the on line book):
http://www.writer2001.com/improvisations.htm
Celtic Coin Index On Line:
http://www.writer2001.com/cciwriter2001/index.htm

You can unsubscribe yourself by logging in on the list archives page at https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CELTIC-L&X=36DAE1476AF514EF73, selecting the 'join or leave Celtic-L' link and going through the unsubscription routine there.

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