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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  March 2007

UCD-STAFFORDBEER March 2007

Subject:

Re: SOME OBSERVATIONS AND A PLAN

From:

Angela Espinosa <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:20:45 +0100

Content-Type:

multipart/mixed

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text/plain (1 lines) , text/plain (10 lines)

Dear Luc (and Rusell)
First of all thanks for all your work; I have visited the place you created and the working spaces that Rusell made thera nd feel quite content with Rusell's interpretations on my suggestions and specially with the whole design and facilities.
More than anything else I truly believe in self-organisation and participation and have since the begining of the Metaphorum history felt strongly we have all the knaowledge, understanding and desire to make things work together.
I agree that it will emerge and people will find their way to continue and develop the many topics that have been launched and started.
My only intention when reading all the communications and replying as I did was to signal an emergent pattern of organisation, and to suggest a path to help it progress.
Hopefully the team of people -inspired by you and others- ho are offering solutions to our variety explosion problem will meet there or through individual mails and come back wit solutions.
I feel quite content with trying yours and seeing if it help us.
I would'nt like to stop this listeserve conversation, as it is still our main networking tool and may be for a while unless we decide to migrate somewhere.
So I fully support your suggestions and feel happy to experiment with the new tools and ideas available.
Angela E
 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer on behalf of Luc Hoebeke 
	Sent: Tue 3/27/2007 09:39 
	To: [log in to unmask] 
	Cc: 
	Subject: Re: SOME OBSERVATIONS AND A PLAN
	
	

	Dear Angela,
	
	As you see, I continue to use the LISTSERV. We have not to make too 
	early a choice for tools. Let us see where the energy is and follow 
	it's flow. We have also still plenty of time to start to "organize" 
	the next meeting. I think that we are still in the digressive, the 
	chaotic phase, which is essential before starting to focus. In fact 
	there is already a virtual team at work, I agree, a bit randomly: but 
	that is normal.
	
	I think the Metaphorum group consists of healthy people, who are able 
	to self-organize. I don't like the task of a coordinator: let us try 
	to involve everyone in co-ordinating the chaos. An adequate tool can 
	help that process. I am working on it on the cybernetics-society space.
	Next friday David is visiting me at home. I shall take up the pre-
	syntegration issue with him. I also would like that he leads this 
	activities using LISTSERV and the wikispace. And I hope also that 
	Nick shall continue to broaden the interactive capabilities of the 
	Metaphorum website. I think that ultimately what is happening now 
	should have a place there.
	
	Kind regards,
	
	Luc
	
	
	Op 27-mrt-07, om 00:12 heeft Angela Espinosa het volgende geschreven:
	
	> Dear all:
	> Sorry to have taken so long to comment on the various -exciting - 
	> conversations. But in a very practical way I invite those of you 
	> who carry on the main topic on participation, organisation and 
	> systems for the Metaphorum, to join a small team, analyse the 
	> alternatives and come and do an agreed solution to start with.
	> I do like Enrique's suggestion and consider we can improve the 
	> webpage and link it to our wiki -as the one Luc suggested-. We can 
	> also use the graphics -if useful- or decide for Boris' suggested 
	> tool and take his offer.
	> As Roger suggested, we need a team of volunteers to go off the list 
	> serve and come back soon with guidelines ton progress in this 
	> directions -steadely-.
	> The process is already been a pre-syntegration creative chaos, as 
	> Luc says, but sooner or later we'll like it to settle into topics 
	> that will constitute the workgroups we mentioned in St Gallen.
	> We'll organise soon the virtual pre-syntegration and David 
	> suggestions would help by sure.
	> I would suggest in this team to be at least Nick, Jose, Luc, Boris, 
	> Leo, Enrique and Paul. I would be happy to be there in the little 
	> group but would appreciate a coordinator with more time available 
	> for this to be coordinating.
	> I am sure we can discuss at the steering committe to support with 
	> seed money the suggested solution, if it within our constrains.
	> Angela
	>
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer on behalf of 
	> Boris G Freesman, Q.C.
	> Sent: Sun 3/25/2007 00:07
	> To:   [log in to unmask]
	> Cc:  
	> Subject:      Re: SOME OBSERVATIONS AND A PLAN
	>
	> One further thought, if I may, before I pour another wine and water 
	> and get as far away as I can from my computer...
	>
	> I believe that Stafford would counsel us that the process of self-
	> organization for any new system must begin with small steps by 
	> trial and error. How well we learn, particularly from the errors, 
	> determines how fast and far we can go...
	>
	> David: good to connect again (I remember the agreement between you, 
	> Stafford and I at the Toronto Experiment [December 28, 1990] and 
	> still have the penny that you gave me as consideration to seal our 
	> agreement). I am very interested in your idea but I think it is 
	> something well down the timeline for now...
	>
	> Boris
	>
	>   ----- Original Message -----
	>   From: Boris G Freesman, Q.C.
	>   To: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
	>   Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 2:34 PM
	>   Subject: Re: SOME OBSERVATIONS AND A PLAN
	>
	>
	>   A further thought... it may be that what we already have, 
	> CollaboratioNets from Jose Rios, could serve our purposes... but I 
	> have not been able to figure out how to use the Forum feature... or 
	> any other part of it!!
	>
	>   So I don't know if it helps or hinders... can anyone advise?
	>
	>   Love and peace,
	>   Boris
	>     ----- Original Message -----
	>     From: Luc Hoebeke
	>     To: [log in to unmask]
	>     Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 12:34 PM
	>     Subject: Re: SOME OBSERVATIONS AND A PLAN
	>
	>
	>     Dear Boris,
	>
	>
	>     Point taken. I try to post the two e-mails around some 
	> observations and a plan on vbulletin. Can you let me know if you 
	> have opened a bulletin and if it is accessible to me? We are indeed 
	> in the first phase of the problem jostle, which has not stolen its 
	> name.
	>
	>
	>     Kind regards,
	>
	>
	>     Luc
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>     Op 24-mrt-07, om 17:24 heeft Boris G Freesman, Q.C. het 
	> volgende geschreven:
	>
	>
	>       Dear Luc,
	>
	>       At this stage, you and I may be talking at cross purposes... 
	> nothing "wrong" with that, by the way! In many ways, quite useful 
	> if we truly listen to each other.
	>
	>       At this stage, all I am proposing is a tool that will enable 
	> all of us to have an intelligent dialogue in an egalitarian, 
	> courteous, respectful and information and variety rich 
	> environment... out of that, I trust, will emerge an outline and 
	> understanding of what it is that we are all about and, then, 
	> answers to the various other issues that you identify and propose.
	>
	>       As you say: "But before choosing a suitable tool, we need to 
	> define for what we need a tool... but this only shall emerge when 
	> we have had a lot of discussions about adequate tools."
	>
	>       For myself, I don't see it at all as a vicious circle... but 
	> vicious circles don't scare me, either... they are easily "broken" 
	> after we identify the oxymorons, tautologies and "non-sense" that 
	> we collectively come up with.
	>
	>       If I were to compare this stage of our dialogue to another 
	> one that we all know, it is just the first step of the Problem 
	> Jostle which begins with the gathering, posting and discussion over 
	> SI's. And I am not implying (not yet, anyway) an e-Syntegration.
	>
	>       All I know is that the Bulletin Board format works and is 
	> admirably suited for organized dialogue amongst a large number of 
	> participants with diverse interests and perspectoves.
	>
	>       Getting started is always the most difficult part... and the 
	> best way, IMHO, is to choose the seemingly most useful process and 
	> plow ahead... if it does not work or if we make mistakes, no 
	> problem! We learn from our mistakes and choose something else. 
	> Otherwise, we are left standing or spinning wheelsa at the starting 
	> gate.
	>
	>       Boris
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>       For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the 
	> Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: 
	> www.platformforchange.org
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>     For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the 
	> Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: 
	> www.platformforchange.org
	>
	>
	>
	> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
	> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  
	> www.platformforchange.org
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
	> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  
	> www.platformforchange.org
	>
	>
	>
	> **********************************************************************
	> *******************
	> To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go 
	> to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html
	> **********************************************************************
	> *******************
	>
	> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
	> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  
	> www.platformforchange.org
	>
	>
	
	For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
	For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org
	



***************************************************************************************** To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html ***************************************************************************************** For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org

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