I know!! Stafford fought against the distinction and other arbitary ones all
his life... but I wanted an insight into the mechanism, how it felt.
Love Beuys too - any brush with him changes lives
and the Christo/Jeanne-Claude partnership is breathtaking, always.
Politically astute too. I can think of no others on that architectonic scale
though the works of Gilbert and George are at least big -
Stafford used to joke about Damien Hurst, whos work he never accessed
despite my best efforts. He would say; 'Pickle him in formadahyde. It's the
only language he understands.'
I'm still up for any insights into the Rhetorics of Innovation btw - not had
much luck on the web.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luc Hoebeke" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: knowledge art or interactive art?
> Dear Vanilla,
> Your question Is it like that in science? surprises me. It was in fact
> the writings of your father which brought me back to science after I got
> tired of what mostly was said to be science. He introduced for me the
> concept of the Art of Science. Indeed, science is one of the arts for me.
> The tools are rigorous thinking and logic: this leads to some elegant
> creations as the set-theoretic approach to the VSM and the VSM itself.
> The products of this rigour and logic are what are named models (theories
> and laws are nothing else than models) for interacting with the abundant
> material of reality. Another exemplar of the art of science, which are
> more known as artists, are Christo and Jeanne-Claude. They master also
> the political process. Because as creative human activities the art of
> politics is also an art. For me, all activity which takes the risk to
> confront ones "dream" or desire with "reality" and explore the boundaries
> of its own tools and dreams can be labeled art. I learned also from
> Joseph Beuys this extended meaning of art. Also he was a scientific
> artist, knowledgeable of all kind of physico-chemical processes, with
> which he was experimenting.
> Kind regards,
> Op 20-mrt-07, om 10:13 heeft Vanilla Beer het volgende geschreven:
>> Enrique - so many thanks for this site, its marvellous....
>> the art debate as you and Luc say, is rooted in knowledge of the tools,
>> like any other discipline, and from the engagement of the practitioner
>> and the subject arises the outcome, to whatever level of sucess. The
>> strength of art - as I use the term, visual and dependant on hand/eye
>> interaction - is that it can access space rooted in the artist as a
>> member of his/her society that is hitherto unknown. You can calll this
>> base space the unconcious but I dont think it is; you can call it the
>> noossphere, the collective unconcious, the ether, the place that
>> Sheldrake talks about whos name escapes me, but I dont think its any of
>> those. Picasso described it as possession by all the dead artists that
>> had preceeded him. It feels like possession (ask anyone- time changes,
>> you become absent; things change without your volition) Lorenzo del
>> Medicii thought that artists were gods messengers and should be treated
>> accordingly. I go with that, not surprisingly.
>> So, whats it like to 'do' science? Is it as easily measurable, in that I
>> have a blank space on paper and then I dont, ergo, something has
>> happened and can be spoken of. Is it like that in science?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "enrique rivera"
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: knowledge art or interactive art?
>>> Dear Luc,
>>> thanks for the feedback,
>>> Recently I visit Belgium for different reason,
>>> too bad that we dont meet to chat in person this matters...
>>> When I visit the web site www.visualcomplexity.com, and surf into the
>>> map coleection, it's like to be in a virtual art gallery.
>>> One amazing discovery was the web site made about the chilean thinker
>>> Fanisco Varela www.franciscovarela.nl
>>> artsciencephilosophy apears like a single word for me when i think in
>>> this convergence.
>>> Medialabs are the spaces for investigation, production and
>>> representations, where theorist programmers, scientist and artist can
>>> work together in multipurpose.
>>> Hope that metaphorum will become in a proactive space for this
>>> necessary structural connection.
>>> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>>> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
>> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org