On 4/4/05 00:25, "Liz Gabay" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:44:05 +0200, David Stifter scríbas:
>> 53. "Bîaid dano in cenn 24) óir forsin colomuin îarndai i Clûain
>> Iraird .i. gnûis luchardæ 25) for colomain cestaig 26) fri re .ix.
>> mblîadna fo trî 27) co n-ecno, 28) co n-óighi, co rîagail." "Is
>> trôcor Dîa", ol Bricîn.
>> 24) E: int en no in cend
>> 25) E: lucharda
>> 26) E: cestaig
>> 27) E: for a tri
>> 28) E: ecna
> Here's what I got:
> “Biaid dano in cenn óir forsin cholomain íarnda i Clúain Iráird .i. gnúis
> luchardae for colomain cestach fri re noí mblíadnae fo thrí co n-ecnu, co
> n-óig, co ríagail.” “Is trócar Día”, ol Bricín.
> “Then there will be the golden head upon the pillar of iron in Clúain
> Iráird, that is, a bright face upon a troublesome column for a period of
> twenty-seven years (literally, nine years times three) with wisdom, with
> chastity, with a monastic rule.” “God is merciful,” said Bricín.
> We saw the monastic site ‘Clúain Iráird’ before in paragraph 10.
I have tried to follow all messages by Tom Smith in relation to §10 but
can't be sure that I haven't missed any. I note that in a list of
identifications from various paragraphs (8 Jan 05), both birth and death
dates are included for Colmán Mac Ailill. I haven't been able to trace a
message in which the (independent?) source of his year of birth is given and
am left wondering just a little about it.
§10 speaks of an abbot of both Cluain Ioraird and Cluain Mhic Nóis and there
was more than one person to hold both offices (according to handwritten
notes I have from long ago) during the timespan of other identifications by
Célechair of the Uí-Macc-Uais certainly falls within the frame (see below)
and there was also Flaithbertach mac Domhnaill of Clann Cholmáin very early
in the 11th century. All of this under the sponsorship of the Uí
Maelsechlainn of Meath (making them both de facto Leth Cuinn houses, in
answer to an earlier question on §10 by David).
Should I now speak of coincidence or non-coincidence?
Célechair's obit in my old notes is 953, 27 years after the obit given by
Tom for Colmán in a previous message, Ý926.
A little coincidence in that I can match 27 years (§53) to a possible
identification of Célechair without having access to the annals, but a
non-coincidence if BaBr refers to the earlier Colmán as abbot of both houses
and of Célechair as abbot of only Cluain Ioraird.
Some further checking would need to be done in the annals to see that there
wasn't another intervening abbot in Cluain Ioraird, but....
I am not sure of the source of my notes but the fact that it isn't written
on them indicates it is a book I owned personally. I'm guessing because of
the Clonard connection (and the era) that it was Kathleen Hughes and
probably her The Church in Early Irish Society. I have some more old taped
boxes to open before I can confirm.
BTW, it would be great if Tom posted an updated list of the identifications
so far. Despite the fairly wide spread of the churches involved, would
there be a strong cluster of paragraphs relating to the Clonard-Clonmacnoise
axis (with Clonmacnoise being a major annalistic centre at the time)?