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OLD-IRISH-L  January 2005

OLD-IRISH-L January 2005

Subject:

Re: Baile Bricín §27.1-4

From:

Liz Gabay <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scholars and students of Old Irish <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 22 Jan 2005 02:37:53 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (141 lines)

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:22:21 +0100, David Stifter scríbas:

>H:
>27. "Bîaid dino an gabalc[h]end Cilli Daigri re tri .xx. blîadna. Fer
>borb crâibdiuch 3) etail anecnaid. Focicher teorui maisi 4) .i. maise
>âenaigh Taltin, 5) maise câna a nUsniuch, 6) maisi môrcathuch 7)
>Êrend 8) a Moig Lêna." 9) "Is trôcairi Dê", ol Bricîn.
>
>3) E: craibdech
>
>4) E: fochichera teora maissi
>
>5) E: Thalten
>
>6) E: chana indUisnech
>
>7) E: morchathacha
>
>8) om. E
>
>9) E: imMaig Léna


Here’s what I have. There are lots of remaining questions.

 “Biaid dano an gabalchend Cille Daigri re trí fichtib blíadnae.  Fer borb
cráibdech etail anecnaid.  Fo·ficher téora maisi .i.  maise n-oenaig
Taltin, maise caíni? i n-Uisniuch, maisi mórchathrach Érend i mMaig
Léna.”   “Is trócaire Dé,” ol Bricín.

“Then there will be the fork-headed one (the crotch-head?) of Cill Daigri
before (for?) sixty years.  A rude, pious, sinless, unlearned man.  He
will put forth three fine things, that is, the fineness of the fair of
Talten, the fineness of (the) good people in Uisnech, the fineness of the
great monastic settlement of Ireland in Mag Léna.”  “It is God’s mercy,”
said Bricín.

   I thought ‘Focicher/ fochichera’ was the 3rd singular future of
fo·ceird (“sets, puts, places...throws, casts..casts down,
overthrows...puts forth, emits, sends out” ). I wasn’t sure how to
translate it here. DIL F 186.53 gives “focicherr..fotcicher..fochiuchra.. -
foicher” as examples of the 3rd singular future.  I kept the form in
source H because it was close to these and I didn’t know which form was
preferred.
    I thought ‘teorui’ was ‘téora’ (the accusative plural of ‘trí’).  I
put the fada on ‘téora’ because we did that in paragraph 10.

   It seemed to me that ‘maisi/maissi’ must be the accusative plural
of ‘maise’ (“goodliness, comeliness, fineness...in figurative sense of
that which is seemly, becoming”) which is given in DIL as a ia(bar) stem
feminine, originally io-stem neuter. I wasn't sure of the best way to
translate it here.  "Maise" is a hard word to translate into English from
Modern Irish as well.  Looking at the paradigms in Strachan, I  would
expect an accusative singular and plural of an io-stem neuter of ‘maise’
and those of the ia(bar) feminine of ‘maisi’. The declensions seem to be
mixed together here.

   I thought ‘âenaigh’ was the genitive singular of ‘oenach’ (“in primary
sense ‘a reunion’, hence a popular assembly or gathering, generally
(though not exclusively) for games, races, and similar contests, as
distinguished from an ‘airecht’ or assembly for communal business;
commonly translated as ‘fair’ though it does not seem to have been
intended for commercial purposes” (DIL O 103.9-14).

      The Modern Irish word ‘aonach’ translates as ‘fair’ and to me it
means a gathering where animals (sheep, cattle, horses) are bought and
sold. The word is given as an o-stem neuter and masculine.  I
thought ‘oenaig’ might be a genitive singular of ‘oenach’, although I’m
not sure why it ends in ‘g’ rather than ‘ch’.  The Modern Irish
word ‘aonach’ has genitive singular ‘aonaigh’, for what it’s worth. On p.
178, Thurneysen says “Some neuters in ‘-ch’ can form their plurals like s-
stems.  Examples: ‘tossach’, dat. Sg. ‘tossuc tossug tossoch’ nom.
Plural ‘tosge’..”  Strachan says basically the same thing on p. 16.  Maybe
that has something to do with it.

  I took ‘Talten’ as the genitive of a place name from the onomasticon,
but I’m not sure it’s any better than the spelling ‘Taltin’ in the source.
    The onomasticon entry is at the bottom, along with some others that
refer to our passage.  Note that it also mentions “dál Uisnig” which might
relate to the second ‘maise’.

    I could not figure out what ‘câna/ chana’ was but I think it’s a
genitive form.  Could it be the word ‘caín’ (“fine, good, fair,
beautiful”) used as a substantive (see DIL C. 32.77)?

    I thought ‘a’ was a confusion for ‘i’ here and that ‘nUsniuch’ was
the “hill of Usnagh in Westmeath” (DIL U 75.54).  I don’t know how to
decline it, but ‘Uisniuch’ looks like it could be a dative form(see the
examples for ‘tossach’ above and the onomasticon below.)

   I thought ‘môrcathuch’ was the adjective ‘mór’ (great, big) plus a
noun.   It may be the k-stem genitive singular of ‘cathir’ (“stone
enclosure, fortress, castle, dwelling.....monastic settlement,
enclosure...fortified city, city”).  I thought the ‘r’ might have been
accidentally ommitted by the scribe.  ‘Êrend’ looks like the genitive of
Eriu (Ireland).

  I thought ‘a’ was a confusion for ‘i’ and ‘Moig Lêna’ contained the
dative of ‘mag’.   In the CELT (Corpuse of Electronic Texts) there is a
text called  “Cath Maighe Léna” (battle of Mag Léna).  I think it might be
called “Moylen” in Modern Irish.  Does anyone know where it was? Was there
a monastic settlement there?   Could it have been anywhere near Tara and
could it correspond to the third "highgathering" mentioned in the
onomasticon entry below?    Liz Gabay


“tailtiu; there is Telton tl. in Rosc. and Teltown tl. and p. in Meath,
the latter is our T.; 1. it is in Meath, K. 124 a, 142 a, Bb. 208 a, Fir.
66, B. iii. lxi., C., Ct.; a hill in Meath, Of. 177; al. Cnoc Tailten
ingene Magmóir, q.v.; 2o it is nr r. Séile (the Blackwater) and nr Domnach
Patraic (Donaghpatrick, which occupies a pleasant site on r. Blackwater,
adjoins the tl. and p. of Telltown, and is 4 m. NW. of Navan), A. 10 a,
Tl. 70, Lb. 27 b; N. of Dubchomar (at Navan), q.v.; "the three
highgatherings of Eire were dál Uisnig at Beltaine, aenach Tailten at
Lugnassad (Lammas-tide), féiss Temrach at Samain (All-Hallows)"; King
Dermait said, "Come thou to the great gathering of Tailtiu in order that,
all 'Eire being witnesses, I yield thee up my sovereignty'"; "Tailtiu's
games are played, its races run," Sil. 73, 435, 453; feats of horsemanship
were performed there, Mis. i. 76; to the left of the road fr. Kells to
Donagh-patrick, is Lag an Aonaigh (the hollow of the fair); there are a
large earthen rath and other remains; till recently Teltown was resorted
to by the Meathmen for hurling, wrestling, &c., Fm. i. 22; one of the
chief burial places of the Ulaid, Lu. 41 b; an older form of ns. is Taltiu
(cf. Taltena, A. 10 a, Tl. 70), g. Talten, d., Taltin, Lu. 52 a, 98 b; a
shortened or older ds. is Tailte, Tailtae, Tailti, Au. i. 366, 188, 270;
Teilte, Ad. 194; Tálti, Lis. 326; v. Bb. 12 a. Ls., Ui., Mi., Cri., Tp.,
Cg., ac., Fia., Let., Mm., Lct., Mis. 1, Ll. 9, 31, Mr., Pd. viii. 38; al.
Tailte Taoiden, Fm. ii. 626; v. Óinach Tailten.”



"uisnech; al. U. Midi, A. 11 a, Lu. 83 a, Lh. 46, Ls. i. 80, Pd. viii. 40,
Bb. 356 b, C., B. vii., lix., Lec. 28, Lis. 39 a, Mr., Md., Cs., Cg., Tl.,
Ct., Fen.; Usney or Ushnagh Hill in p. Killare, Westm., Mi., Ci. Cri.,
Lct.; in the Connacht portion of Meath, Of. 304, K. 141 b; g. Uisnig, Ll.
355, Bd. 10, ML. 80, Mr. 96, Nen. 266; d. Uisniuch, A. 11 a, Lis. 96 b,
Ib. 56, Ll. 10 b."

"lena; cath Leanai against Eile Mac Da thuireadh, Lec. 39, Fir. 50; cf.
Mag Lena."

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