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Subject: Re: grotesque, deformed, unrecognizable
From: Dennis King <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Scholars and students of Old Irish <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:12:20 -0700

text/plain (64 lines)

Kathy scríbas:

> I ignored the vowels and just looked at the consonants,
> letting d=t if necessary.

That's basically a sound stategy.  Compound verbs that
begin with do- in their independent (deuterotonic) forms
generally have dependent (prototonic) forms that begin with
t- or d- :

do-beir (gives)        >  ní tabair (doesn't give)
do-fúairc (grinds)     >  ní túairc (   "    grind)
do-adbat (shows)       >  ní tadbat (   "    show)
do-ucci (understands)  >  ní tucci  (   "    understand)
do-rorban (hinders)    >  ní derban (   "    hinder)
do-gní (does)          >  ní dénai  (   "    do)
do-éccai (watches)     >  ní déccai (   "    watch)

All your match-ups are correct!  I've added a complete
translation of the mystery forms:

> | 1. ní nderbai            [do·rorban (hinders)

it did not hinder him

> | 2. do·rérachtid          [do·érig  (abandons)

ye (you all) have abandoned

> | 3. co tairled            [do·aidlea (comes to)

that he should come to

> | 4. co tairsitis           [do·airicc (reaches)

that they might reach

> How is one supposed to know these verb forms?

Speakers of Modern Irish and Scottish Gaelic can sometimes
recognize the dependent forms, which have remained alive
and productive more often than the independent ones.  A few
examples from above:

ní tabair    >  tabhair "give"
ní túairc    >  tuargain "pound, crush"
ní tu(i)cci  >  tuig "understand" (Eng. slang "twig")
ní dénai     >  déan "do, make"

> I need a _501 Old Irish Verbs_

You have the "Green Book" already, but it does come up
short of 501 verbs.  The indices of Thurneysen's GOI, and
of McCone's _The Early Irish Verb_ are useful resources.
When the DIL becomes available on CD-ROM, I assume it will
be fully searchable.  Almost all the finite verb forms
that we encounter in actual texts are cited in it somewhere
or another.

If I have a chance later, I may add a few thoughts on a
way of thinking about OI verbs that can make them seem less
gratuitously "grotesque, deformed, unrecognizable".


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