> De : Dennis King <[log in to unmask]>
> Objet : Re: Druid - Magus
> Alexis wrote:
>> To summarize, the Irish clerics invented a new possibility to explain the
>> extraordinary powers of those who might have been, once, known as gods. They
>> just created a new orthodoxy after demonization and evhemerism :
>> "biblification (?)".
> To be more concrete, for those who haven't read Carey's essay,
> one strategy for accomodating the old gods in Christian Ireland
> went like this, as I undertand it. First, the old gods, esp.
> Túatha Dé Danann, come to be viewed as the Otherworld Folk, Áes
> Síde, the People of the Hollow Hills. They are not so much gods
> as another, and largely immortal, race of beings, who can interact
> with human mortals but have a parallel existence. While
> establishing this new role for the old gods, it was necessary
> to justify it in Christian terms, and the most popular approach
> was to see the Áes Síde as either a tribe of humans who escaped
> the Fall:
> Fil dún, ó thossuch dúile We are, since the beginning of creation,
> cen aíss, cen forbthe n-úire. without age, without earthly decay.
> Ní frescam de mbeth anguss - We do not expect to grow feeble -
> nín táraill int immarbuss. the Fall has not touched us.
> - Mannanán speaking in "Immram Brain", Carey's translation
> ... or as "half-fallen angels" who were expelled from heaven for
> not siding with God, but who were not guilty of actual rebellion
> and so were not cast down completely.
>> So, to come back to Carey, I think that he found the
>> good arguments, but that sometimes, his conclusions are not completly
>> relevant with what he has presented.
> At the beginning of the essay, Carey quotes from two tales in
> which early saints, Colum Cille in one, and Finnian in the other,
> converse with figures who tell of transmigrating through many
> lives and forms in the pre-christian past. To what extent was
> transmigration/reincarnation a legitamate theological argument
> within Christianity at that time, say, around the 7th century?
I don't think that the Christian writer of these texts would have understood
it as tales of transmigration/reincarnation, but only successive
transformations. I would add that these texts have a strong metaphoric tone
: poets (even Christian ones) can do things which theologians cannot !
In a friendly way,