At 11:24 AM 3/13/2002 +0000, fiddlinvet wrote:
>Since you believe that this cut roll is such an imperative and common
>tradition in Irish music, would you please give us a sound sample such as
>Irish Trad musician/which tune/which recording, so we know what you are
>talking about. Are you trying to project GHP technique
>onto Irish Trad music?
Please read the numerous posts to other similar challenges before repeating
them. Pick up any uilleann pipe or flute or whistle CD nearly anyone in the
league of Larry Nugent or Paddy Keenan, Liam O'Flynn, etc. and listen to
any dance tune. What amazes me is that you can't hear them, since they
occur every other note or so. Likewise, please do not be hasty to embrace
Mr. Varlot's great wisdom and wit concerning my base of reference, since I
have clearly explained this situation numerous times. For the
comprehensionally impaired, I do not principle play GHB and have not for
some time. GHB playing on the other hand, has adopted almost entirely Irish
whistle/pipe technique and has not really given set names to the movements
in question yet as they technique was picked up from hearing it played and
incorporated into the tradition, and any nomenclature was not particularly
passed along with it.
>You also insist that us (incapable) fiddlers are
>incapable of playing correctly because we don't use that cut roll.
Please read what I actually posted before employing sarcasm that will
merely make you look foolish. The fiddle is not inherently incapable of the
equivalent embellishments, proper instructors and all noted players all use
them. Most field-issue fiddlers on the other hand, are incapable of hearing
or reproducing them, and thus, insert lame approximations instead.
> Well as
>I say: GHP are GHP are GHP and "a fiddle is a fiddle is a fiddle (quote
>Paddy Ryan)" and each instrument has its own technique.
That's not really true at all if you'd actually read the thread. GHB and UP
or whistle technique relative to most of the jig, reel and hornpipe play
are essentially identical, as are most of the tunes or at least the idioms
of the tunes are identical given that GHB repertoir is made up of modified
Irish traditional tunes in order to fit the limited scale, or new
compositions duplicating traditional styles and techniques.
>roll" or some other such thing, in which the roll portion is actually just
>a third melody note making a loose triple down and back with a cut in front
>Actually, on a fiddle a long roll is a "normal" roll that spans the usual
>3 quavers (eighth notes) in 5 notes.. if you add a cut, then that is
>a long roll with a cut.
Well, let's not quibble about terminology, you've defined a cut roll
exactly as I've described is being lobotomized. The roll you describe
probably is exactly as I've noted as "correct" timing etc, however, I
clearly refered to another school which would span 3 quavers by playing 3
quavers and calling that a long roll. If you don't think this is common,
you should sit in on more sessions in the US.
> But the actual timing of the roll stays the same.
>And it does not fit everywhere, or in every tune and, if one did rolls all
>time and everywhere it would not be good fiddle playingbut acrobatics.
Funny, pick up any CD by Burke or Peoples or any other similar player and
they do in fact play rolls all the time.
>If we spent as much time picking apart technique and naming it and deciding
>whether or not it is correct and which players of which instrument are
>lobotomized, we'd never get to play at all.
Actually, if you never know you're only capable of playing lobotimized
technique you aren't playing at all.
Pipe Major's Handbook Zetland Pipes Brian Boru Irish Pipe Band