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CELTIC-L  October 2001

CELTIC-L October 2001

Subject:

Re: goos and gods

From:

Christopher Gwinn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

CELTIC-L - The Celtic Culture List.

Date:

Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:36:34 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (83 lines)

> > Yes, Latin lux/luce- comes from PIE *leuk- "light/bright" - but PIE
>*leuk-
> > cannot give us a Celtic lug-
>
>Why? Is not -eu- a u-sound?

Yes it is.

>And couldn't k be softened to g?

Not impossible - but also not likely.

>It seems to me when we're dealing with stuff that's 3000 years old and
>there's
>no written language etc and one scratched up piece of bronze that
>everybody argues about and then--- (not being mean, really), we have
>people up at the University with their opinions (based as they are
>on real work, I know).

Well it's a good thing that I am not up the University then, hunh?

>But using my common-sense (I know you don't believe in it, :)), it seems
>that Lugu is a Sun-god, a god of light (leuk), because there are so
>many Lugdunums, founded for important gods obviously.

That is completely illogical.

>  But really!:
>let's name the Hill-fort after the <God of Oaths>... "I don't think so,
>Gefuntorix, let's dedicate it to the goddam shining Sun-god!!" (Cries
>of drunken agreement...)

Uhh...ok....whatever you say.

>Point 2:  I don't think the Keltoi had a <god of oaths>.  You've read
>the Punic Wars, right? (Did I mean the Gallic wars?)

I have no idea what you are talking about - what does the Punic war have to
do with this subject? Of course the Celts had a god [or gods] of oaths - if
you have read any books by Dumezil, you would know that all Indo European
people had some sort of god that oversaw the swearing of oaths - and that
these gods were often the supreme first-function gods.

>Is there really evidence for a GOO?  Is seems to me (I'm havin' a common
>sense attack again!), that people (now and forver) swear on the highest
>power lyin' about, God or Jesus or the Devil ...  Or Lugu.

Please try to stay coherent for us.

>Maybe *leugh came from Lug and that's why it was (mistakenly) called
>the GOO.  See, I can theorize too, and I'm just an idiot.

Well, it might be theorizing, but it certainly isn't scientific reasoning.
The simple fact is, the root *leugh- "oath" is known in other Indo European
branches as well - where they have no god Lugus - which is one reason that
we believe that the root preceded the divine name.

>How many times have you heard: "I swear by Jonda <<the God of Oaths>>,
>that you are the dipiest chick I've ever seen..."

Never, actually.

> > (note that *leuk _does_ give us Celtic
> > louc-/leuc-, as in Loucetius - the god of lightning). Some have
>postulated
> > that there was a variant of PIE *leuk- with a -g-, *leug-, but this is
> > purely hypothetical and unattested in any other IE branch.
>
>  Your books can kill my books.

???

> > A Celtic Lugus can only be derived from a PIE *leug- or *leugh-.
>
>  Is that the consensus of scholars or your opinion?

Consensus of scholars _and_ my opinion.

- Chris Gwinn

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