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Subject: Introduction and a request about Ogam
From: Doug Weller <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Doug Weller <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:46:30 +0100

text/plain (116 lines)


I'm an American ex-pat living near Birmingham, with a general interest
in things archaeological.  I've done quite a few digs, training
schools, ran a club for Young Archaeologists, etc.  My interests are
wide ranging but in particular I run a web site looking at fringe
archaeology.  Right now I and several others are engaged in a debate
over claims for Ogam in America (please don't click delete yet!).  The
debate centres around a supporter of Barry Fell, who indeed Fell
relied upon from time to time. This person, Larry Athy, has clearly
done a lot of working looking at books and articles on Ogam.

American Ogam, these people claim (please note I think this is
extremely unlikely), is characterised by its lack of vowels.
Not surprisingly, this  argument is accompanied by another, that vowel-less
Ogam exists in Europe, both in the British Isles and in Iberia.  (It gets a bit
worse, Athy claims that Native Americans wrote in an Ogam script in Colorado
in 1000 BC and took this and their language to the British Isles where they
bequeathed it to the natives -- and, even more amazingly, the 1000 BC
inscriptions were in a form of writing that had somehow arrived in Colorado
earlier from Europe!).  These claims are taken seriously by quite a
few people in the States, and the evidence for them *looks*
impressive, backed as it is by copious references and statistics.

To make a long story short, I am trying to trace the claims made for
vowel-less Ogam in the British Isles.  For a short period someone has
put up several articles by Athy and Fell referencing these claims.
These articles will probably be removed shortly, and are at:

Other references for vowel-less Ogam are the following.
Any help, leads, etc. would be much appreciated.  Chris Gwinn and
Larry Athy are at the moment debating a few of them, Chris having
looked at the CISP site (which I can't access at the moment) and
finding that Athy's reports on some of these below aren't accurate.

Thanks for reading this far!

    Macalister, R.A.S.  _Studies in Irish Epigraphy_ Pt. II.
        1902, London, David Nutt

        *P. 129:  Clonmacnoise, King's Co., Ireland
    Macalister, R.A.S.  _Corpus Inscriptionum Insularum
        Celticarum_, Volume I
        1945, Dublin, Stationery Office

        *P. 238:  Aghadoe, Co. Kerry, Ireland, #2;
        *P. 242:  Ardcanaght, Co. Kerry, Ireland, #2;
        *P. 243:  Ardywanig, Co. Kerry, Ireland;
        *P.   76:  Aultagh, Co. Cork, Ireland;
        *P. 170:  Coolnagoppoge, Co. Kerry, Ireland;
        *P. 175:  Glenfahan, Co. Kerry, Ireland.
    Brash, Richard Rolt  _The Ogam Inscribed Monuments
        of the Gaedhil in the British Islands: with a
        Dissertation on the Ogam Character._
        1879, London, George Bell and Sons.

        *Plate VIII:  Bweeng, Co. Cork, Ireland;
        *P, 296     :  Calan Mountain, Co. Clare, Ireland;
        *Plate XL  :  Corrody, Co. Londonderry, Ireland;
        *Plate XL  :  Sleive Na Calliagh, Co. Meath,
    Ferguson, Sir Samuel  "Proceedings," in _The Journal
        of the Royal Historical and Archaeological
        Association of Ireland_, Volume II, Fourth Series,
        1872, Dublin, University Press.

        *P 527:  Castlederg, Co. Tyrone, Ireland.
    J.R.S.A.I.  (_Journal of the Royal Society of
        Antiquaries of Ireland):

        1901,  Volume XXXI--Consecutive Series.
        Dublin, Ponsonby and Weldrick.

        *P. 38:  St. John's Priory, Co. Waterford, Ireland;

        1916, Volume XLVI--Consecutive Series.
        Dublin, John Falconer.

        *P.141:  Garraun North, Co. Cork, Ireland.
    Whittall, James P.  "Ogam Inscribed Gravestone,"
        in _The Epigraphic Society Occasional Publications_
        Volume 7, Part 2.
        1979, Arlington, Mass.

        *P. 232:  Skellig Michael Island, Co. Kerry,
    Blackett, W. R.  "Proceedings," in _The Journal of the
        Kilkenny and Southeast of Ireland Archaeological
        Society_, Volume III, New Series
        1860-61, Dublin, McGlasan and Gill.

        *P 7:  Templeenoach, Co. Waterford, Ireland.
    McGlone, William R., et al.  _Ancient American
        Inscriptions; Plowmarks or History_
        1993, ESRS, Sutton, Mass.

        *P 104:  Tollard House, Argyll, Scotland.
[This one is based on work by Barry Fell]

 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
 Submissions to:[log in to unmask]
 Doug's Archaeology Site:
 Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details

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